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  #1  
Old 03-28-2009, 11:26 PM
statix
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Default trek HT frame(4400 disc)

mga sir any idea kung magandang klase ba ang frame ng trek specifically yung
frame ng 4400 na disc?ok ba itong frame na to for Trails/AM na set up.
salamat !
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  #2  
Old 03-28-2009, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by statix View Post
mga sir any idea kung magandang klase ba ang frame ng trek specifically yung
frame ng 4400 na disc?ok ba itong frame na to for Trails/AM na set up.
salamat !
bro mine is a trek 4500 SL... so far wala naman ako naging problema :thumbsup: btw xc nga pala setup ko
  #3  
Old 03-29-2009, 12:33 AM
statix
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

sir built bike ba yung sayo?magkano kuha mo?sir xc yung set up mo?does it mean na pwede din sya pang trails?what about yung may konting jump kaya ba ng ganitong frame?thanks
  #4  
Old 03-29-2009, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

the trek 4400 is one of the low end models of trek. alpha white aluminum ang construction niya and according to their website, it is a just a straight gauge tube. meaning, no hydroforming was performed hence its a bit on the heavy side. it is primarily used for XC and it can only accomodate a fork with up to 100mm travel.

merida HT (model 500 and up) frames are more lightweight and better. it uses what is known as TFS or Techno Forming System which is their term for hydro forming. meaning, the diameter of the main tubes (top and down) are altered to make the frame light. sells for 9k brand new and about 7-8k slightly used.

you could also consider GT Avalanche frames if you're on a budget. it is also straight guaged but the triple triangle construction makes it more rigid than trek. normally costs around 3.5-4k.
  #5  
Old 03-29-2009, 07:53 PM
statix
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chubs914 View Post
the trek 4400 is one of the low end models of trek. alpha white aluminum ang construction niya and according to their website, it is a just a straight gauge tube. meaning, no hydroforming was performed hence its a bit on the heavy side. it is primarily used for XC and it can only accomodate a fork with up to 100mm travel.

merida HT (model 500 and up) frames are more lightweight and better. it uses what is known as TFS or Techno Forming System which is their term for hydro forming. meaning, the diameter of the main tubes (top and down) are altered to make the frame light. sells for 9k brand new and about 7-8k slightly used.

you could also consider GT Avalanche frames if you're on a budget. it is also straight guaged but the triple triangle construction makes it more rigid than trek. normally costs around 3.5-4k.

sir i checked the trek website and it was stated there that series 4 trek bikes are alpha black aluminum, and a part of the frame was hydro formed.so if it is alpha black...do you think it is strong enough to use it for trails and all mountain, and a little jumps.and is it true that you cannot use a 120mm fork for this HT frame.any inputs on this one would be much appreciated.and also pls enlighten me about xc and trail set up.
if ur bike is on xc set up can you still use it on trails, off road and a few drops and bunny hops?pasensya na mga sir..:)thanks

Last edited by statix; 03-29-2009 at 08:03 PM. Reason: additional qs
  #6  
Old 03-29-2009, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by statix View Post
sir i checked the trek website and it was stated there that series 4 trek bikes are alpha black aluminum, and a part of the frame was hydro formed.so if it is alpha black...do you think it is strong enough to use it for trails and all mountain, and a little jumps.and is it true that you cannot use a 120mm fork for this HT frame.any inputs on this one would be much appreciated.thanks
sorry for the error. maybe they have upraded it. by the way, you are looking at a 2008 model, right? phased out na kasi siya for 2009. its primarily for XC use and chances are if you put a 120mm fork, the geometry might be altered in such a way that it might be difficult to use on uphills. its strong enough for trails but not for all mountain and little jumps.

if you intend to go for an All Mountain bike, i suggest you get a full suspension.
  #7  
Old 03-29-2009, 08:07 PM
statix
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

also pls enlighten me about xc and trail set up.
if ur bike is on xc set up can you still use it on trails, off road and a few drops and bunny hops?an all mountain set up is merely rough roads, but can an xc set still can take a little of that?pasensya na mga sir..thanks
  #8  
Old 03-29-2009, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by statix View Post
sir built bike ba yung sayo?magkano kuha mo?sir xc yung set up mo?does it mean na pwede din sya pang trails?what about yung may konting jump kaya ba ng ganitong frame?thanks
inasemble lang namin parts by parts... pwede sa trails wala problema di ko lang alam kung pwede sa jump... di ko pa kasi nasusubukan... baka sumemplang ako di kasi ako marunong magpa jump :sigh:...
  #9  
Old 03-29-2009, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by statix View Post
also pls enlighten me about xc and trail set up.
if ur bike is on xc set up can you still use it on trails, off road and a few drops and bunny hops?an all mountain set up is merely rough roads, but can an xc set still can take a little of that?pasensya na mga sir..thanks
i'll bet you, there are those who will say that an XC setup can be used for jumps, bunny hops, and even fast and long downhill trails.

i'm only speaking for myself. you cannot use the XC setup bike to do jumps, bunny hops and fast, long downhil trails. it is merely confined to rugged flat terrains with small obstacles. you can do a little downhill but only short distances and with no obstacles up front. there is no so such thing as a do-it-all bike. for bunny hops, you use a bike designed for Urban/DJ where the geometry is slacker than XC. for jumps, you use a Freeride full suspension bike with at least 6-7 inch of travel to absorb drops and of course, if your trip is going fast on a downhill trail, then there is a DH full suspension bike with at least 7-8 inch of travel and a heavyweight to suit your needs.

different bikes for different styles, in short.
  #10  
Old 03-30-2009, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

hello, if you are new, the 4400 frame is sufficient to help you learn the techniques necessary for doing well. i would not suggest that you should go full suspension kasi you will start relying on technology to get you out of trouble as most posers end up doing. i started with a 4900 frame. its somewhat heavy but quite durable. i still have it and currently use it to train. though it's considered as a "performance" category, meaning low end, it can still handle abuse.

could you take it for jumps? yes, i have taken it in ~6 feet vertical jumps and ~12 feet horizontal airs and it has held up so far. i crash nearly every ride because i am a firm believer that one never learns if they never push themselves to their skill limit.. I have taken it on xc, singletracks, downhills (plenty in Tahoe, CA) and the frame has held up. i have dropped it off the cliff because i had to bail out (at least i still have my head). The only drawback is its components because they are very low quality (bent original derailleur, broken both original shifters, broken bontrager wheels, and leaking low end original rockshox fork)...

For beginners, i suggest that you start with a low end hard tail (if possible, rigid). Why? The logic is this:

First, you will have less fear of crashing your bike because it does not cost as much thus allowing you to work on your skills.

Second, it FORCES you to develop your skill because you are forced to you to rely on your skill and not on your bike.

Third: It allows you to work on your bike. As you change components, it makes you learn the mechanical ins and outs of making a mountain bike. If you have a really nice and expensive bike, you would rather go to a lbs to have it serviced because you are too afraid that you will do something wrong. Cyclers may get away with not knowing how to take care of bikes but for mtbers, it essential to eventually learn to to fully rebuild a bike from its bearings.

Fourth (but not the the last one): it is very satisfying during training rides to leave people with high end bikes. they are surprised when i overtake them and when i take jumps that they in their well equipped bike (e.g. santa cruz nomads, giant reign x) wouldn't.

so, if you are not so sure what your niche in mtb is, its a good frame to start off granted you can get it for cheap

my vital stats that you might take into consideration:

weight: 140 lbs
frame: 16.5 (small)
type of riding i do: give me a trail and i will do it.
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2009, 03:18 AM
statix
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

@gmarchie12,thanks for the input and giving me an overview on what can this kind of frame can take, like a few jumps and trails.though of course you cannot take this for a heavy beating compared to a fs frames.thanks
  #12  
Old 03-30-2009, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by statix View Post
also pls enlighten me about xc and trail set up.
if ur bike is on xc set up can you still use it on trails, off road and a few drops and bunny hops?an all mountain set up is merely rough roads, but can an xc set still can take a little of that?pasensya na mga sir..thanks
Just FYI, "all mountain" does NOT mean "merely rough roads". AM as the term is generally used covers aggressive trail riding and includes jumps and drops.

I think terms like XC, AM, FR, DH are starting to cause some confusion.

If "XC" means a 23 pound ultraskinny XC race bike, then yes, these bikes are fragile and shouldn't be used for anything involving hits.

If "XC" means a typical entry level HT frame (Vision Pursuit, Trek 4 series, Jamis Ranger, Giant Yukon etc etc etc) with a 4" fork, that's very different. These are fairly solid frames and it's really more appropriate to call them "general purpose" than "XC". They are totally adequate for general trail use, especially by new riders who don't have the skill set to take on big hits or scream through boulder gardens at high speeds anyway. You wouldn't race DH on a bike like that, but certainly you can ride steep DH trails. Just drop your seat way down, keep your weight back, and pick your line.

You can certainly bunny hop a bike like this. In fact, if you're talking about bunny hopping small obstacles like a speed bump or a 6" log, you can do that on a true xc rig (xc racers bunny hop all the time). You can do modest drops, especially to transition, on a general purpose bike. Of course if you do huge hucks or repeated long drops to flat the bike will suffer, but how many newbies are doing that anyway? if you will be dropping, just keep your wheels true and check your spokes regularly, you are more likely to break your wheels than your frame!

Please don't think that a HT frame is inherently less capable of riding rough stuff than an FS frame. There are HT bikes built for AM riding and FS bikes made for light XC.

IMO, new riders (especially those on a budget) shouldn't be thinking about designations like XC/AM/FR/DH. Just build a general purpose HT and ride a lot, work on building basic skills and endurance. As you ride you will get a better sense of where you ultimately want to go. You can spend 20-25 on this kind of bike and ride it for a long time without ever being held back by your equipment. The constraint on your riding will be your skills, not the equipment, and upgrading skills is what you'll need to work on.
  #13  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dayuhan View Post
Just FYI, "all mountain" does NOT mean "merely rough roads". AM as the term is generally used covers aggressive trail riding and includes jumps and drops.

I think terms like XC, AM, FR, DH are starting to cause some confusion.

If "XC" means a 23 pound ultraskinny XC race bike, then yes, these bikes are fragile and shouldn't be used for anything involving hits.

If "XC" means a typical entry level HT frame (Vision Pursuit, Trek 4 series, Jamis Ranger, Giant Yukon etc etc etc) with a 4" fork, that's very different. These are fairly solid frames and it's really more appropriate to call them "general purpose" than "XC". They are totally adequate for general trail use, especially by new riders who don't have the skill set to take on big hits or scream through boulder gardens at high speeds anyway. You wouldn't race DH on a bike like that, but certainly you can ride steep DH trails. Just drop your seat way down, keep your weight back, and pick your line.

You can certainly bunny hop a bike like this. In fact, if you're talking about bunny hopping small obstacles like a speed bump or a 6" log, you can do that on a true xc rig (xc racers bunny hop all the time). You can do modest drops, especially to transition, on a general purpose bike. Of course if you do huge hucks or repeated long drops to flat the bike will suffer, but how many newbies are doing that anyway? if you will be dropping, just keep your wheels true and check your spokes regularly, you are more likely to break your wheels than your frame!

Please don't think that a HT frame is inherently less capable of riding rough stuff than an FS frame. There are HT bikes built for AM riding and FS bikes made for light XC.

IMO, new riders (especially those on a budget) shouldn't be thinking about designations like XC/AM/FR/DH. Just build a general purpose HT and ride a lot, work on building basic skills and endurance. As you ride you will get a better sense of where you ultimately want to go. You can spend 20-25 on this kind of bike and ride it for a long time without ever being held back by your equipment. The constraint on your riding will be your skills, not the equipment, and upgrading skills is what you'll need to work on.
+1

I have a XC-GP (general purpose :)) bike that I use on training rides (Vision Pursuit). Some bunny hops, small jumps, small drops, and some flight of stairs wouldn't faze this baby. One thing I'm concerned of giving out thou are the wheelsets, so to make sure they will hold, I have a set built up for abuse. I don't want to break the bank with the wheelset build so I opted for the CHEAP and HEAVY choice. Heavy duty rims for V-Brake use (for extra side wall strength), big fat generic stainless steel spokes, cheap and heavy CST tires with very thick sidewall and good enough shimano center lock hubs.

Ayos! :thumbsup:
  #14  
Old 03-30-2009, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: trek HT frame(4400 disc)

For a good cheap strong wheelset, use Deore hubs, generic spokes, and Mavic 223 rims. Lots of these around, and they work.

Most important is to maintain your wheelset. Check regularly for truing and loose spokes. Even a 40k ultrabling FR wheelset will fail if it takes a hit without even spoke tension.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:18 PM
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Default Need help for trek mod..

Greetings mga sirs! newbie here... want to ask for any suggestions on what modifications i can do with my mtb so it can be somewhat trail worthy. i got my trek at a shop sa cartimar. it's a 2009 trek4300.. the shop owner suggested it to be a good entry level bike and i also liked how it looked. here are the current specs of my bike.

Sizes: 16"
Frame: Alpha Black Aluminum w/externally relieved head tube, hydroformed
bi-axial down tube, monostay seatstays, forged disc ready dropouts
Front Suspension: RST Gila T8 w/preload, 100mm
Wheels: Shimano M65 disc hubs; Bontrager Ranger rims w/eyelets
Tires: Bontrager Jones ACX, 26x2.1"; 27 tpi
Shifters: Shimano EF50, 8 speed
Front Derailleur: Shimano C050
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Alivio
Crank: SR Suntour XCC-T102 42/34/24
Cassette: SRAM PG830 11-32, 8 speed
Pedals: Alloy ATB
Saddle: Bontrager Race Lux Basic
Seat Post: Bontrager SSR, 20mm offset
Handlebars: Bontrager SSR, 25mm rise
Stem: Bontrager SSR, 10 degree
Headset: VP-A76C-TK, 1 1/8" semi-cartridge, sealed
Brakeset Shimano: M415, mechanical disc w/Shimano EF50 levers
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:35 PM
amgmercedes amgmercedes is offline
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Default Re: Need help for trek mod..

It's already trail worthy as it is, just ride the hell out of it and replace components as they break. But unless you crash, mistreat the components or you're a really aggressive rider, I doubt you'll break anything.

Ride more and get a feel of the bike so you can figure out what part of the bike you want to improve upon before you buy any new parts.

Then after that it all depends how much you want to spend and what your priority is. Better looks? Lighter weight? Stronger braking? Plusher front suspension? Etc....

I think the best upgrade you can do for now is to "upgrade" the nut behind the handlebars, aka the engine, aka you. :)

But let's say I had money burning a hole in my pocket and I just had to upgrade something, I'd replace the fork with a Suntour Epicon and in the process remove almost 2lbs from your bike while getting a plusher ride. Second would be a set of hydro brakes or maybe Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes. Then maybe a Deore or LX rear derailleur for better shifting and slightly lighter weight.

Maybe others would suggest upgrading to a 9 speed, but I personally don't see why you should, that one extra gear isn't gonna make much real world difference. I must admit my bike has 9 speeds but only because the gruppo that I bought came with 9 speeds. If it had come with 8 I probably would not have bothered upgrading to 9. The only logical reason I see for a recreational cyclist to upgrade to 9 from 8 is because you have a wider range of drive train parts (specially the fancy and/or lightweight stuff) for 9 speed since it's the current standard.

Rather than spending money to upgrade to 9 speed, I'd opt to buy a lighter wheelset and tires. Having said that, it might actually be a good idea to make the lighter wheelset and tires your first upgrade. Lighter rotating mass equals faster acceleration plus braking and will require less energy to keep the wheels spinning. Remove a total of 500g or more from your wheelset and you'll find notice your bike feel faster and more responsive.
  #17  
Old 06-01-2009, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Need help for trek mod..

After getting very familiar with your bike and your biking style. Probably you may want to upgrade from 8 speed to 9 speed. You will need to change the shifters, brake levers, cogs, chain and rear derailleur.:thumbsup: The rest of your bike parts are all Ok
  #18  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Need help for trek mod..

i agree with amgmercedes. ride it muna. ride your equipment until it breaks, then replace it along the way.

build your stamina and strength on the setup of yours. para kapag nagpalit ka ng lighter components, mas mabilis/malakas ka. btw, i'm an 8 speed user for almost a decade now, okey naman siya, serves my purpose.
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2009, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Need help for trek mod..

normally, for entry level built bikes, the very first thing you may want to upgrade is the SADDLE because stock saddles that came with your bike either has little foam for support or either too wide or too narrow to comfortably fit your sit bones.

cycling is all about being comfortable on your rig. if you're comfortable then you'll be inspired to ride more and enjoy the ride with friends even for long distances. and this is why having a comfortable saddle is a must.

for the rest of the components, use it until it breaks, but what amgmercedes told you about getting a lighter wheelset should be your next target upgrade.

ride safe....
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: Need help for trek mod..

thanks so much for all the advice mga sirs! tama nga, i'll enjoy riding and get a feel of my bike na muna then upgrade parts that need upgrading na. amgmercedes mentioned about changing my wheelset to a lighter one... can u give me some suggestions on what lighter wheelset and tires to get? :thanks:
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