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  #21  
Old 02-23-2013, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

@jims

Good point and that has been the debate for years. This is for the electric vehicles that need to draw power from the grid.

However a regular hybrid is self charging and that they do not need draw power from the grid.

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  #22  
Old 02-23-2013, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

self-charging hybrid cars that do not draw power from the grid?
malabo yata yun.... there is no free lunch

Quote:
Can electric vehicles self-charge?

FAQ
Simply: No. Many people have proposed adding generators to EVs to allow the vehicles to partially recharge themselves. Some suggest generators on the wheels or drive shaft while others suggest small wind turbines behind the grille or on the roof. In each case, more energy would be consumed to turn the generators than could ever be recaptured. Attempting to generate while driving would result in a net loss of range.

There is no free lunch. Energy conversions are never 100% efficient, so every time we convert one form of energy to another, we lose some of that energy. We lose energy when we charge an EV's battery from the wall outlet. We lose energy when we take charge out of the EV's battery to push the car down the road. If we tried to convert the energy from the moving car back into battery charge, we would again lose energy.

Installing a generator on an EV would be akin to driving with the brakes on. For this reason, modern hybrids and EVs only recapture electrical charge when slowing down. The kinetic energy of the vehicle in motion is partially converted -- by the electric motor working in reverse -- into electricity that can be added back to the battery. This advantageous process slows the vehicle by capturing the vehicle's kinetic energy that is normally wasted to heat with traditional brakes. The problem comes when we do NOT want to slow down while simultaneously converting the kinetic energy of the car into battery charge. Spinning a generator will always require energy input. And that energy input will always slow the vehicle. To overcome this "slowing force" caused by the generator, additional energy must be consumed from the vehicle's battery to maintain speed. Because of the conversion losses mentioned earlier, more energy will be consumed than will be replaced. The ironic result of "self charging" would be a net loss of charge (resulting in shorter range).
http://www.pluginamerica.org/faq/can...es-self-charge

So if this means more pollution from coal-fired power plants to charge those high-performance batteries, we are not really solving the problem of air pollution.

Negative Environmental Impacts of Hybrid Vehicles
http://greenliving.lovetoknow.com/Hy...nmental_Impact
"Most HEVs and PHEVs use nickel-hydride and lithium-ion batteries thought to be better for the environment, but that may not entirely be true. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, nickel is a probable human carcinogen, and improperly disposing of nickel-hydride batteries can pose an environmental hazard. Also, the website HybridCars, states that there are environmental concerns regarding the mining required to create these batteries."


The Hybrid Hype: Is Your Prius Saving the Planet?
http://www.reuserecycle.net/hybrid-hype.php
" ... they remain a long way from making any serious impact on either the environment or our pocketbooks. The cost savings is minimal, if any, and as long as the vehicles remain dependant on gasoline we aren't likely too see any serious reduction in emissions or our dependence on oil. Hybrids are at best a way to make a small impact while making yourself feel better about owning and driving a car. Want to really save money and the environment? Walk, ride a bike, or use public transportation as much as possible. The less you drive your car - any car - the more you will do to truly reduce emissions."

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  #23  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

Pure electric cars cannot self charge of course, these are iMiev, Tesla.

But hybrid cars can - the Toyota Prius for one has been around for a while already.

  #24  
Old 02-24-2013, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by jims View Post
Just wondering...

Hybrid cars use a mix of traditional gasoline and batteries. Of course, the high-capacity batteries in these cars are charged using electricity.

Air pollution is most problematic in Luzon cities. But how is electricity generated in Luzon? Our power plants are mostly coal-based and oil-based. Less than 25% are run using "cleaner" technologies (geothermal, hydroelectric, wind-farms). This works bettter in Europe, specially in France, due to their nuclear plants supplying a big part of their electricity.

image
http://www.doe.gov.ph/ep/ExistingPlants.htm

So would this really reduce air pollution? Bawas nga ang car emissions, dagdag naman ang usok ng coal-based at fossil-fuel power plants. Am I missing something?
Yeah you missed the 26% cleaner burning natural gas which makes it 50% of cleaner power sources. Glass half full.

  #25  
Old 02-24-2013, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

Quote:
Yeah you missed the 26% cleaner burning natural gas which makes it 50% of cleaner power sources. Glass half full.
Thanks for pointing that out. But natural gas, is still a fossil-fuel and extracting it and burning it is still a major source of air pollution.

http://environment.nationalgeographi...tion-overview/
"Carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, is the main pollutant that is warming Earth. Though living things emit carbon dioxide when they breathe, carbon dioxide is widely considered to be a pollutant when associated with cars, planes, power plants, and other human activities that involve the burning of fossil fuels such as gasoline and natural gas. In the past 150 years, such activities have pumped enough carbon dioxide into the atmosphere to raise its levels higher than they have been for hundreds of thousands of years."

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  #26  
Old 02-24-2013, 10:35 PM
Gundam168 Gundam168 is offline
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

^
And the status quo is much better? Maybe for you if you're an internet biker. I'm breathing that sh*t everyday.

  #27  
Old 02-25-2013, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

No question, the pollution is bad in Manila. But the point is using hybrid cars is not the answer to that problem. We will just be shifting the bad air around.

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  #28  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

from the statements, i can sense a few things.

yes, manila's air suck bigtime. but at least hybrids are commercially available option as of this time, so why not patronize it? at least for those of us who are dependent on cars for a good reason.

until electric or solar cars are around and available, at least the emissions are lessened.

we're still a long way to go in cleaning the air. and even if we do clean the emissions from vehicles...coal power plants still contribute a lot.

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  #29  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by jims View Post
No question, the pollution is bad in Manila. But the point is using hybrid cars is not the answer to that problem. We will just be shifting the bad air around.
Exactly. Shift bad air out of the cities and into the countryside where there are more trees to absorb it. Let the trees have it cause my lungs don't want it.

  #30  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: SB 2856 - cleaner air to breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by jims View Post
No question, the pollution is bad in Manila. But the point is using hybrid cars is not the answer to that problem. We will just be shifting the bad air around.
@jims,

Are you absolutely sure that all hybrids are drawing power from the grid?

Sharing you this link perhaps I might be able to convince you that not all hybrids are the same. In fact most hybrids sold since 1999 do not fall under your category of "shifting the bad air" type.

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